"Renew the UK Open Government Network" - Call for EU Horizon consortium

To Whom It May Concern

I would like to ask your help to find consortium members from the Open Government Civil Society Network for the Digital Democracy - EU Horizon tender.
Tender link: Funding & tenders

The startup Humanner project concept based on more years citizen research and holistic analysis of large collection of best practises for civic system integration.
www. linkedin. com/pulse/citizen-social-science-age-alpha-generation-humanner-/


We can’t resolve our wicked problems with isolated and disconnected tools and also we have to find our common language.

The round-table of society for multisectoral wicked problem solving.
The concept to build a collective social innovation ecosystem to address the individual and group identity points as base of connection and grouping them by specific needs in knowledge and digital tools, a kind of Digital Operation System for the society. Our present Social Networks focus on networking the people and groups but we have to change this to connect the information and knowledge in a structured way to help recognise the fact in interconnectedness. This is a key element in wicked problem solving and evident based policy recommendation.

No co-production platform which can help the improvement of the soft skills in the most important transversal skills for adults like critical thinking, initiative, system thinking, problem solving and the ability to work together, creativity, risk analysis, decision making. Dealing with the new generations, proofed, and impregnated by information culture, we must find the most important points around their new kind of relations to and role in their society, locality and civilization problems. All our approaches and ideas about the development and management of their digital ecosystems, tools and literacies have to be rest on the changing nature of their social life, integration and involvement level.

The project’s technology base is a novel disruptive innovation of the software development environment for WEB 4.0 (Semantic ontology)

For more details for the technological details and adoption in education innovation please see our team members MIT tender application for foundation of lifelong research in Science Education of K 12-18 age groups.

Kind regards

Janos Deak
(A Hungarian in UK)

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The project’s technology base is a novel programing language independent disruptive innovation of the software development environment for the WEB 4.0 (Semantic ontology)

For more details for the technological details and adoption in education innovation please see our team members MIT tender application for foundation of lifelong research in Science Education of K 12-18 age groups.

Part of the complexity of the problems we face is that they are not defined, have multiple dimensions or change before we can understand them. Integrating the different perspectives, not only of the experts, but of the people directly or indirectly affected by the problem is key so that we can make sense of it and manage it.

The project is based on holistic approach of (eco)system thinking to develop the process of transdisciplinarity collaboration for deliberative problem solving in a multi-sectoral environment.
The interlinked knowledge management supported by semantic and spatial web ontologies in distributed knowledge graphs on a multi-layered network environment.

Interlinking open science and community-based participatory research for social innovation


Hi Janos,

Hopefully you’ll still be around. We’ve had a problem up to now due the reply button being switched off. But Neisha has help to fix that so maybe we can attempt to pick this up before the call at the EU ends.

We are sooo on the same frequency with the open research > open gov. It’s probably easier to see if we consider the open gov part being a subset of open research. That’s primarily because the open research guys will include the network managers who tie together the big EU “flagship” projects. This is their euro hub. And this is a Flagship.

These guys have already invented lots of (open source) tools which few in govland will be aware of, even though most functionarios who have been to a uni, have already used some of the tools. The difference in principle being that researchers “share” their global tools while in National govland, they are still “delivering”, using different tools, at a different time, in a different place, and logging on to each with a different ID and password.

Let me offer this illustration of what i mean, so no one can say “Ï don’t get it.” Top right, Hit Log In. Choose a language. Choose an Identity Provider. This could be either the uni where you have an institutional account or, because this is a demo of the most open approach to sharing an app, could be your usual social media account. You go through the usual process of using your IDP(rovider), to log onto, and share, the geant wiki.

So that’s the Identity model which we need to get on the radar in govland. Do a search on Federated Identity if you want some more insight. "edugain" is the one you’ve just experienced.

OK. Enough of the geek stuff for now. I’m just flagging where the join between opengov and open research (and education) services come together, so far as network engineers are concerned. e.g. We could share these forums, and any other app, with various levels of network security, if we each had an ID provided by government institutions who had some common policies, standards and protocols in place. So we need to try and broker a relationship between the publicly minded in both camps. (and there’s lots going on now, e.g. )

Also. Calum is starting to do a little community building around the idea of a True English Devolution. Seems kinda strange to these old media eyes when the scots seem to have it covered, in the UK world at least. Calum wants us to use email. How quaint.

BTW. Neisha pointed out to me that they (The Scots) are members of a Nordic + group.. Nicely buried in the OGP site, like most other inter-country OGP groups. So the progressives, who don’t suffer the arrogance and stupidities of a Westminster system, are moving rapidly down converging tracks.

Enough for now. Come back please. Love the graphics.

Hi Simon,

Nice to hear from you and I can see you are deeply involved in this fields by your personal interest more then just a hobby.

Unfortunately the linked EU call is over but will be many others later on I think so.
I didn’t find partners so I step back a bit and rethink the my way. I restarted my old Sonetmark project to establish the financial background of the Humanner project to avoid to depend on the grant opportunities only.

An other reason my break is the AI revolution which I have to research and learn a bit how can be useful in the semantic web area. Something like this article:

The identity service one of the problem and the we make a new problem with every new competitor ID service. Honestly the identity service not in my focus as quite a complex area and I think already many projects work on this from different aspects. The MyAccessID project looks promising to interlink different ID providers to bridge the gap between them as a new kind of “password manager”.

As I’m one of the general public I mostly look at the things from the Citizen Social Science relation - How can be involved an ordinary citizen in flourishing our common future.

In this case we are already overwhelmed with information and hard to follow up as you also can feel sometimes.
I opened your other links but I have time for just a quick overview so I do nor response them here.

It would be nice to connect with you so please find me on LinkedIn as

Speak you soon


Hi Janos,

Good to see you’re still around here. You’re probably know there are continuing calls under Horizon 2 (Past, present and Future Democracies) although I’m not sure the UK can participate. Regardless, this can be the place for our UK audience to ask any questions of the EU about Participatory and Deliberative Democracy.

Janos, You’ve crammed an aweful lot on this one thread. Too much to enable a full discussion about any of the ideas, and how they might/do relate. But your primary call = Renewing the UK Open Government Network = relates to every National and Local OGP member’s Civil Society Network at the moment. OGP members do, and are, focussing on cultivating the other side of the open government coin.

If we use that basic diagram of parallel developments - open science and open government - we have an opportunity now to bring the two communities together, with or without the EU’s help. Why Now? There are quite a few EU projects and OGP commitments whose reiterations have always had common ends. Now these common ends can be seen.

To give you some concept of how close our ideas are. You mentioned MyAccessID. I gave you an illustration of how thousands of universities around the world can share a Geant wiki. Here’s the MyAccessID communities’ home page, on the Geant wiki.

So you can see we are very close to bridging the gap between globally minded citizen researchers and Nationally minded OGP secretariats. That’s why we need to renew the OGP’s Civil Society Networks. They’re full of global thematic communities. as well as Local ones.

Enough for now. Let’s sit and see if anyone else is interested in renewing the CSNs.
BTW. Don’t use LinkedIn since MS bought it. Don’t like to be profiled, which is why I want a ID that brings my edu and gov access together.

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Hi Simon,

As you suggested I waited few days to see anyone else wish to join to our conversation.
Well …???

1/ EU - UK
Yes this need more investigation or find a backdoor for UK members can participate.
For example some of EU citizens who live in UK can bridge this gap.

2/ I don’t think the “parallel developments” would be the solution rather then the UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT

Our problems are complex and interconnected and our present problem laid on the non systematic disconnected parallel developments as I suggested with one of my picture.

3/ MyAccessID communities’
I saw this great diagram about offering a common Identity Layer for Infrastructure Service.

Yes this is one of the problem how can we access the information and how can we filter the fake and fraud users.

But another side this coin is the old fashioned UI - user interface - which shows to us the information without systemic insights. Blog - Wiki - Social networks - all are based on timeline posting and give us a very primitive simple tag - category filtering options only.

We have to look at the things at the root of the problem and in this case we have to start from ONTOLOGY and to implement the [Connected Knowledge of Knowledge Graph in a social networked collaborative environment to build a HUMAN COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE with AI support.

I find the parts of this system and I just need to bring them together to build this vision.

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Hi Janos, and Merry Xmas.

Well… I had hoped we might have had a little help from a community manager or someone with an insight into the larger UK OG communities. It seems those days are gone.

I did a little looking around the Scottish end of UK OG town. There is one community you should be aware of. It hangs off this X feed, and their newsletter is buried inside the UK NRENs email lists. Please take note of the fact that the newsletter is buried inside JISC’s email lists. This is pretty common as almost every researcher around the world uses their local NREN but rarely takes any notice of what they do.

  1. Check out the guy who started the newsletter. You’ll see that most of your ideas are following the same path he’s been beating for over a decade. (Note his EC funded projects)
  2. The point I was making is, as your picture illustrated, is that Open Science and Open Gov have been sharing parallel developments. They DO come together in Social Innovations, the primary one being the reformation of existing (Research, Education, Economic & Political) institutions.

That’s what we are seeing played out, in our case, as the secretariats of each OGP member’s “Lead Ministry” learn the skills of community building. The UK manual was written over a decade ago when the GDS was set up.

  1. You’re quite right about “the user interface” and I can see you mean more than just making an app easy to use. But at this point I have to ask you to help me with getting a focus on the citizen’s ID. Like you, I think through the “parts of potential system”; something Ive been doing since the Web was invented.

The main sticking point at the moment is that most citizens who are trying to renovate their political and civil houses never consider the plumbing, water and sewerage that they share; i.e. the inter-networking. Until we have an agreement about an ID that people - inside and outside public networks - can use to share and record their communications - we are going nowhere. (unless you’d like me as benevolent dictator of course :wink:).

Hopefully 2024 will be the year where we see the UK’s bureaucratic paradigm change from "deliver "to “share”. We have to hope OGP member’s secretariats will start to collaborate on their common commitments. We’ll see. All the best to you Mr. Humanner.

Happy new year Simon

I sent you a DM here please check it.

Kind regards


Happy New Year to you too.

Got your direct message. Let’s have our conversation above the radar. These forums aren’t used a lot and this thread is a nice one for the neuro-diverse. (what’s Hungarian for that? :thinking:

Let’s pidgeon-hole ourselves so we can get some separation between the skills sets, and focus on the priorities of each. We’re somewhere between being engineers and designers. We already know the primary audiences around here are coming from the other end. i.e. Community managers and designers.

We also know that, being between the silos of different National and Local government (using OGP’s categorisations) departments, our friends will limit their online designing to "digital participation" software. PP has produced a wonderful guide. So, there’s nothing we can do or say until each secretariat has been through the entire guide a few times.

We just gotta wait until the silos understand that you might not need a digital participation platform. Hopefully, it won’t take too long for civil servants to recognise that this is one software leg, or trunk, in the design of digital commons and public spaces elephants,:elephant:

In the meantime.
It’s so funny. What’s the first thing you latched onto? User Authentication. (weirdo :joy:
It’s so bleeding obvious isn’t it? All this talk about “user centric” design, and in a world where were everyone knows how Wikipedia works (sharing a production), governments and their agencies (mainly .gov and .edu) are still in the brochure-ware production business.

We don’t need to shout this stuff, and I won’t repeat myself. I’ve already pointed to a working example of how federated identity enables access to shared services between tens of thousands of schools, unis and research labs globally, in my first reply to you. Anything you want to throw in here about identity in the R&E space would be welcome, especially if it enables a newbie to “get it” (federated ID & services) by pushing a few buttons.

You could also do us all a real favour by putting a few links to your stuff and interests on your profile page here.

You’ve got some graphics skills right? We will need to redraw a couple of those pics above. This one to start. Forget the UK heading. It needs to point to thematic groups in the OGP domain as well. At the moment we only have a MSF in the OGP which is the weak link in the OGP process. i.e No international thematic groups. (seems remarkable doesn’t it? The obvious is so easily overlooked) . be good.

Hi Simon,

Thank you for your reply.
I sent a DM to you as I do not want to share my contact details publicly.

So as I see you want to keep our conversation in the public area so let’s do it here.

“You could also do us all a real favour by putting a few links to your stuff and interests on your profile page here.”

I will try to introduce myself in short. (hope so I can be enough short)

I moved to the UK in 2008 and work as a lorry driver. I do not have any high education degree but next to my job I am continuously looking for intellectual challenges to discover the meaning of my personal life on the earth by continuously doing a kind of citizen research to discover the problems and find solutions for them.

Around 2010 I wanted to start an eBay business but I had to change my plan as I can’t manage next to my permanent job so I extended my eBay marketing study in SEO, advertising systems, affiliate systems and website design development to be able to plan the strategy and break up to action steps. The target was a parallel built bootstrapped side project to change my job. For this I need to get a minimum 2 million monthly visitors on my website which can be lost anytime when Google changes the ranking system. To avoid this I built 400 autoblog wordpress site networks with my own ad server. So each website has enough to get 400-500 visitors per month per website to achieve the accumulated 2 million unique visitors. After 1,5 year I had to close down when I already got 700K ad impressions so they just started to pay me the first payouts as I lost my job and I can’t afford the expensive dedicated server rental fee.

Few months later I started thinking what else can I do? So with this started my idea evolution based on my research results. During the years I collected a 280 Gb knowledge base in Confluence wiki and 6Gb in Onenote. The collected information from human areas as physiology, sociology, - SDI - Spiral Dynamics Integral - organisation operation methods and processes in NGO and open source projects including web technologies like web development process, cloud virtualisation and semantic web.
For the OSSAPA project (Open Source SAP Alternative) I collected more than a hundred open source projects’ functional details.

I recognised there is a big financial system problem around the NGO and Open Source projects as the present system makes them competitors of each other rather than collaborators.
This point was when I started connecting the dots from my WIKI and slowly developed my kind of system thinking as all of our problems come from the HUMAN FACTOR and this is the one main thing that is blocking the solutions to make a better world.

Democracy, UN SDG and Climate change have the same root problems.

When everything in our life goes quickly and dramatically changes the life of society by the MEGA TRENDS and we have many wicked problems we use old 19th century HUMAN methods and processes in a highly and globally integrated environment.

During the COVID lock-down I got certified as a Citizen Social Scientist in the course of Coventry University and after in another CSS course organised by Barcelona university.

Conclusion of my research.
We develop isolated and disconnected competitor projects which work with different standards, methods and processes.
There is a very big intellectual capital and potential in the TWO biggest volunteer sectors as NGO and Open Source but nobody is thinking on how we can bring them closer to each other and provide them a stable financial system.

Most of the SOCIAL ORIENTED open source projects have a very short life cycle if they can’t provide any value for the business sector that can be converted into money.

That is why my strategy is similar to AMAZON as I plan to outsource the most expensive services into a business which can help to pay the bills of the COMMUNITY PROJECT. To support this strategy during the last few years I collected many software licenses and SaaS lifetime licenses this DIGITAL TOOL ECOSYSTEM can use in the future free of charge.

I’m in the final stage as this year I’ll heavily invest in no code - low code development environment, automation and AI tools.

1/ Setup an automated sales system which does not or very minimal customer support need.
2/ Plan and prioritise the future steps to open up alternative revenue funnels.
3/ Related to the long term target break up into sub-projects and prioritize them into LEGO / Puzzle blocks
4/ Next year based on the realised revenue streams start the development of the LEGO / Puzzle blocks.

Next year’s development plan is a kind of method and process repository for organisation and business architects as well as enterprise architects.

We have to use technology to teach HUMAN how to use the tech tools.

This system can be used in policy planning and optimisation aslo.

“You’ve got some graphics skills right? We will need to redraw a couple of those pics above.”
I have more design (AI) tools but my creative skill is a bit limited as I can’t provide professional service with. Most of the pictures come from my knowledge base collection.

“Anything you want to throw in here about identity in the R&E space would be welcome, especially if it enables a newbie to “get it” (federated ID & services) by pushing a few buttons.”

Well I use a password manager as I have around 500+ logins saved in. This helps me use multiple browsers and do not risk saving directly in the browser.

I have a lifetime license No-Code mobile app development tool, SMS (text) service and digital identification service which can send encrypted links and do face and fingerprint authentication for mobile devices which can be used in two factor authentication.

More and more web services use MAGIC LINKS and I hate them.
You get an email with a login link. So you have to go into your email inbox, find the email in your busy spammed inbox and link them which opens up a new tab or a new browser window if you use different as your default browser.

A bit better if you get a push notification or a text message with the authentication code which hopefully will be 6 or 8 digit long to make it hard to memorise when you open up the app login page.

It is a complicated nightmare.

Our programming tools will be changed dramatically.

This is depend on what kind of STRATEGIC REQUIREMENT MILESTONES you definit in your deliverable value chain of the targeted tool development. Like privacy, security, transparency, AI long memory, data ownership, etc. Each of these words have a long functional requestment list.

These STRATEGIC REQUIREMENT POINTS will drive what kind of tech tools you can use and which in harmony with your service values chain.

Unfortunately most of the EU project died after the financed period and as I said previously “We develop isolated and disconnected competitor projects which work with different standards, methods and processes.” and this true in the EU projects as well.

In this case we have to discover the connection points between different projects and make publicly available this graph map to indicate future thinking on collaborative solution.

When I read the content of the OGP sites I have a feeling about something important missing. I can’t elaborate exactly what is that yet. But something important missing around this two groups in the process.

  • Collaborative process for
    • civil society organizations
    • citizens - civil society

The OGP Participation and Co-Creation Standards
First of all the DOORs not widely open for the citizen actions.

The Open Government Partnership (OGP) was formed in 2011 by governments and civil society organizations seeking new ways of working together to address difficult challenges. The founding idea was that more collaboration between governments, civil society, and citizens, better sharing of innovations globally, and a focus on implementing specific and measurable open government actions would create a race to the top and help governments work for all, not just the most powerful.

I can see very seldom in the content about citizens and civil society involvement in the OGP process.
But these group can give the real background power of the OGP when dealing with government agencies.

But with citizens have to communicate differently as the OGP has a kind of UP-DOWN process which do not fit for the ordinary people thinking. They have A PROBLEM what they want to resolve somehow. They are result oriented also. I saw many active groups on Facebook around a problem but usually they do not have tools and process how to go forward.

citizens → civil society → civil society organizations → OGP Local / OGP

citizens → civil society → OGP Local → OGP national → OGP International

I think many citizens would be happy to see a PROBLEM SOLVING platform which information funnels end up in the OGP action plan.

There are thematic groups, Tim Hughes is the lead for the Democratic Innovations and overall Adna Karamehic-Oates leads for OGP thematic discussions both really helpful in guiding themes such as democracy, climate action but it remains up to each OGP member to decide on their focus

Hi Doreen,

Thank you for your information but unfortunately I can’t find any option on this forum to contact with @Tim Hughes or @Adna Karamehic-Oates also can’t see how can I find the thematic group of Democratic Innovations.

I tied the site wide search and user search but no result

Thanks Doreen,

Can I be quite clear here as it is going to be important if we are to bring the researchers and interface designers in the .govspace, and the engineers and interface designers in the .edu space to the same page. This what I was looking for.

When I talk about interface design (or UX) I mean designing services so that people can find their (global) peers groups, which will always span existing institutions/silos. e.g. The archive of your Citizen Participation Network is buried on a JISC email server. It will never be found unless some insider tells an outsider. There’s not even a link to it off the (main?) website.

You also have your OGP COP which I would have thought would be used, over the past years, to help the secretariats learn (what works best) from one another IN REAL TIME (because that’s the way research is done today. i.e. Project based learning) But that group is buried away as well.

That’s all I’ll say for now. But one thing, about the difference in generational cultures. Remember when our parents said “its rude to point”* ? On the web, if it can’t be pointed at, it doesn’t exist (yet).